RR Pod E22 Andrea Franchetto (The problems of) Defining 'Magic', Legitimization, and (the importance of) Space in Grimoire Traditions

In the first part of our interview, Andrea and I discuss the complex issue regarding the definition of 'magic' within the Western historical study of esotericism and/or religion, and how we could perhaps see 'magic' as a meta-category containing 'family resemblances' or 'patterns of magicity' that allow for comparisons of different magical practices or attitudes. We also talk about the differences between the etic and emic perspectives of the term 'magic', as grimoires are concerned with the magicians' views and ideas about the rituals they perform and the significance these rituals hold. We then delve into the topic of legitimization of ritual magical practices within the context of Christianity from the 1200s-1500s. In this time period, most magical texts were considered heretical by the Church, forcing magicians to try to legitimize the use of these manuscripts. We look in particular at the views of Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa von Nettesheim and his attempts to restore the reputation of magic as a divine art. Our conversation then leads to different magical texts, focusing on the Liber Iuratus Honorii, or the Sworn Book of Honorius as it relates to Andrea's own research into ritual spaces. We also use Andrea's article to discuss these concepts in more detail, especially why space is such an important part of the magical ritual.