E38: ClickUp CFO Dan Zhang on Frameworks to Level Up Your Decisionmaking and Communication

In this episode, CJ welcomes Dan Zhang, the CFO of ClickUp for a highly tactical and transparent conversation about getting–and staying– in the CFO seat. They cover her time at Amazon, her personal finance philosophy, and important frameworks for decision-making such as the Trust Formula and the Empty Boat Test. If you’re looking for an ERP platform, check out our sponsor, NetSuite: https://netsuite.com/metrics — PSA: Run The Numbers has a new Spotify and Apple show link. Follow the links to subscribe and ensure you'll never miss an episode Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/run-the-numbers/id1723787140 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0zQCkklNnVgMD364kCW5SV — SPONSORS: NetSuite provides financial software for all your business needs. More than 37,000 thousand companies have already upgraded to NetSuite, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you're looking for an ERP platform ✅ NetSuite: https://netsuite.com/metrics and get a customized KPI checklist. Maxio is the only billing and financial operations platform that was purpose built for B2B SaaS. They're helping SaaS finance teams automate billing and revenue recognition, manage collections and payments, and put together investor grade reporting packages. 🚀 Request a demo at www.maxio.com/runthenumbers for 10% off your first year. Thoropass provides complete compliance management, continuous monitoring, and security audits through intuitive software and expert guidance – allowing you to do business with confidence. Learn more: https://bit.ly/Thoropass 🔒 Tropic is the next-generation Procurement Platform that’s helping modern CFOs take control of their budgets and bottom line. By combining approval workflows, supplier management, and pricing benchmarks all in one place, Tropic makes savings opportunities easy to find and act on. 🌴 Visit www.tropicapp.io/metrics to learn how. -- FOLLOW US ON X: @cjgustafson222 (CJ) @turpentinemedia – TIMESTAMPS:  (00:00) Intro (02:40) Sponsors: NetSuite | Thoropass (05:30) From journalism to business (07:10) Dan’s finance philosophy (10:42) Lessons from Amazon (13:48) Framework for improving communication (19:35) Sponsor: Maxio (21:00) Balancing short term and long term views as CFO (22:55) Tactics and time management (25:50) When to be optimistic vs pessimistic (30:30) The traits of an ideal CFO (34:04) Dan’s framework for decisionmaking: the Trust Formula (39:57) Dan’s framework for being 10x more effective: the Empty Boat Test (42:25) Biggest myths  (44:49) Best career story (47:03) Biggest career screw up (47:50) Dan’s software stack at ClickUp brought to you by Tropic (50:00) Craziest expense This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at [email protected].