The Game of Product, Choosing How You Play It, and Resolving the Creative Tension Between PM and Design w/ Derlen Chiu, VP of Product at April EP 106

Who drives the product team? It shouldn't always be the Product Manager.On #wayofproduct this week, Derlen Chiu shares his perspective on resolving the creative tension between cross-functional team members. It's no secret that PM and PD have an industry-wide tension. We break that down in this episode. Highlights include:⭐ Why focusing too much on the job title blocks good work, especially in a startup, and why Derlen doesn't enforce "staying in your lane" with his team. ⭐ How to decide when PM, PD, and Engineering should take the driver's seat in a project. ⭐ How Dungeons and Dragons is a great metaphor for a well-balanced team. Trust me; it will make sense when you listen to it.⭐ Derlens Take on Developing a Product Strategy by Thinking in Games.Plus, much more!Listen to Derlen's Interview on...🎧 Apple Podcasts - https://lnkd.in/ghs99F-G🎧 Spotify - https://lnkd.in/g2YU_eX4🎧 Google Podcasts - https://lnkd.in/gaXS6i_4🎧 Audible - https://lnkd.in/gy5EWw-r📺  Watch clips on YouTube - https://lnkd.in/g-UVCNrN📲 Watch Episode Clips on TikTok - https://lnkd.in/gaEgR-ws📲 Watch Episode Clips on X - https://lnkd.in/gSTC5SRU📸 Follow me on Instagram - https://lnkd.in/gEzmaFS4Who is Derlen Chiu?Derlen is a VP of Product at April, a tax software made for accounting agencies but designed to provide an amazing end-customer experience.Before April, Derlen was part of the financial services industry, where he eventually began working in products at places like Plaid! Interesting Fact: He also maintains a 14-year-old blog on the soccer business at TheSoccerCEO.com!Don't forget to subscribe to the LinkedIn page The Way of Product | A Podcast on Product Team Collaboration for clips, new releases, and updates!Connect with Derlen: https://www.linkedin.com/in/derlen/Follow April: https://www.linkedin.com/company/apriltax/02:04 Guest's Journey from Finance to Tech04:30 Understanding the Role of Product Management07:54 The Importance of Defining the Game in Product Management10:21 The Role of Strategy in Product Management18:20 Resolving Creative Tension in Product Teams20:03 Incorporating Subject Matter Experts in Product Design22:28 Practical Example: Automating Payments in Agriculture23:25 The Role of Product Managers23:57 Driving the Tax Filing Product24:55 Balancing Roles in Product Development25:18 Switching Drivers in Product Management26:04 The Game Metaphor in Product Management26:34 Understanding the Role in the Game26:38 Tracking Product Development27:57 The Role of Design in Product Success28:47 The Marty Cagan Model 29:31 Understanding When to Drive as a Designer31:13 The Game of Product Management31:58 The Challenge of Entering the Tax Market32:44 The Strategic Challenge in Product Design33:46 The Role of User Experience in Product Success38:00 The Importance of Building Relationships in Agriculture42:04 Closing Thoughts on Product and Design Partnership42:49 Final Words and Sign Off This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.wayofproduct.com